Prime Minister
I think it is as well to remind ourselves how this whole position started. It started because Saddam Hussein substituted the rule of force for the rule of law and invaded an independent country and that cannot be allowed to stand.
President Bush set out the issues admirably in his excellent speech yesterday, so our objective is first to defend the other countries in the Gulf, defend their territorial integrity and keep them independent; and second, to get the invaders out of Kuwait and to restore Kuwait to its independence with its legitimate government.
The means are the defence we are operating in the Gulf countries at the moment and the pressure on Saddam Hussein and Iraq is being conducted through the Sanctions Resolution which, to be effective, must have teeth.
So that is the position and that is the strategy.
What we find now is that, as President Bush pointed out, Saddam Hussein is now trying in his tactics to hide behind Western women and children and use them as human shields and use them as part of his negotiations. We do not enter into such negotiations. [end p1] These people are entitled to certain fundamental human rights which are being totally flouted, to the repugnance of the whole civilised world.
May I come on to trying to enforce the United Nations embargo and make it 100 per cent effective.
We were fortunate in getting very good support at the United Nations, almost unprecedented unity for this, on the embargo itself. As you know, there is another Resolution being considered by some members of the Security Council about having means to enforce the embargo in a Resolution itself. We do not necessarily need those means by that Resolution because we already have the authority for enforcing an embargo under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter and the request from Shaikh Jaber al-Ahmed al-Jaber al-Sabahthe Emir of Kuwait—that is sufficient to enforce that Resolution. We would like to have the extra authority, I think, of the whole world through the United Nations Resolution to take the requisite action to enforce the embargo.
I cannot stress too much that embargo must be effective. That is our main means of bringing pressure on Iraq and it must therefore be effective and it must therefore be enforced and we must have the means to enforce it.
The other priority I have already indicated is to defend the other countries of the Gulf and to deter attack. We have already, as you know, sent a number of armed forces which you know about and some of the countries of the Gulf have asked us for consultations under the Treaty of Friendship and we are considering whether the contribution we have already made should be further increased.
We are obviously very worried indeed—indeed we are gravely concerned—about the callous way in which Iraq is treating British [end p2] and other foreign citizens, we are very concerned about them and the anguish it is causing their families here. It is, as Douglas Hurdthe Foreign Secretary said, utterly repulsive and no civilised country behaves in this way.
We are working together with other European countries and with the United States to do as much as we can for them. May I point out that it was as long ago as August 8th when we collectively—that is, the United States and the European countries—asked the International Committee of the Red Cross to protect our nationals in those countries—the 8th August! We went again on 10th August and repeated the request and we are deeply disappointed that action has not yet been taken. The International Committee of the Red Cross can do this, of course, under their Charter and so William Waldegrave is in Geneva today to take the matter up again further with them.
We also shall keep our embassy in Kuwait, as I believe other European countries will and I believe the United States will. Solidarity is absolutely vital here. We are fully entitled to keep our embassy in Kuwait, which is a lawful and independent country and therefore we are entitled to have an embassy there and all people who work in it to have diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention, to which Iraq is a signatory, so we shall keep our embassy in Kuwait. Our people are there and they have a right to expect the full amount of protection that we can possibly give them.
I have enquired further, of course, about what is happening to some of our people in Kuwait, particularly to those who were taken away either from hotels or apprehended on the street and I may [end p3] say that one group of them, our first impression is that they have not been taken to military installations; we are not fully able to check but that is our impression, that some sixty-six of them whom we know about we believe have not been taken to military installations and so we shall stay there and try to do our duty in relation to our citizens, as everyone should do in relation to foreign citizens who are in Kuwait or Iraq and it is Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of our people and we shall hold them to that. In the meantime, we must keep absolute solidarity on these matters and act totally together.
As you know, Douglas Hurdthe Foreign Secretary and Tom KingDefence Secretary are in Paris today for meetings of the Western European Union and the EEC Twelve and again, I hope that will confirm solidarity in the way we deal with the Gulf. I hope that more people will send forces, again as an indication of our solidarity, but may I point out that when we had the Armilla Patrol, which we had for a long time, in the Gulf, and when it became very active because of the conflict between Iraq and Iran, I very well remember we received a message from Luxembourg saying: “We are not able, for obvious reasons, to send ships into the Gulf, but we will therefore contribute some money to the cost of the operation.” So may I say to all those nations who are not sending ships or arms to the Gulf or to defend the other nations in the Gulf, I hope that they will think fit to show their support of the United Nations Resolution by perhaps helping with some of the costs of the operation and also helping people like Turkey and Jordan, for whom imposing the sanctions would have a very considerable cost indeed. [end p4]
I had a further talk with President Bush yesterday and, of course, the White House and my Office have been in constant touch since the President and I met in Washington on 6 August, and later today I shall be seeing the Omani Foreign Minister, Mr. Yussef Alawi (phon) and also Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia.
So our purpose is to achieve the objective of the United Nations Resolution, to see that Kuwait is restored to an independent country with her legitimate government. Our means is the defence of the other Gulf countries and Saudi Arabia from being attacked and the enforcement of the United Nations embargo on goods to and from Iraq. [end p5]
John Dickie (Daily Mail)
Prime Minister, do you now regard the Britons trapped in Kuwait and Iraq as hostages and if so, are you prepared, if necessary, to use military force to secure their release ultimately?
Prime Minister
I think in ordinary parlance, as Saddam Hussein is now clearly using them as a bargaining factor, you could not possibly say they were merely detainees. That is almost the definition of hostages—are they being used as a bargaining factor for other purposes—and quite clearly they are and I think, therefore, that that would in ordinary parlance, be the appropriate word.
We have always said right from the beginning—and President Bush—that we do not rule out military force but our means of enforcing the Resolution are twofold, as I have indicated: the defence of Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf countries to deter an attack and strong enforcement of the United Nations Sanctions Resolution. That Resolution must have teeth if it is to be effective and the more you are anxious for that to operate effectively, the more you must insist that you have the means to do that.
Alastair Campbell (Daily Mirror)
Prime Minister, President Bush 's speech has been widely interpreted as having attempted to prepare the American people for [end p6] war. I am just wondering whether that was your interpretation and whether you are intending to send a similar message to the British people.
Prime Minister
I thought it was an excellent speech; I thought George Bushhe made it absolutely clear that we are there in a defensive mode as far as deterring any attack on Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf countries is concerned; if we were attacked, we should have to defend those countries; and also, to enforce the United Nations embargo and the keener you are that there should be no unnecessary military action, the more you must accept the effective enforcement of that embargo and that, I think, is what the President was saying.
Of course, when you go to defend other countries, you do put yourselves at risk and that is why you must have ample—indeed abundant—forces so to do it, because you are on a very very long supply line and you really must build up your forces first to deter, but if you are attacked you have sufficient to deal effectively with the situation. The strategy at the moment is as I have indicated but the military option has never been ruled out.
I most earnestly hope that the present strategy will succeed and that the United Nations, who are looking at another Resolution today, will realise it is critical we make that Sanctions Resolution effective and collective.
Jeremy Paxton (BBC2 Newsnight)
I take it from what you say that you do not regard war as inevitable but if not, what is the deadline for, for example, [end p7] getting out of Kuwait or the release of British hostages?
Prime Minister
You cannot give deadlines. I have had to deal with many unexpected situations in this job. You look at the situation day by day; you set out your strategy, as I have set it out, and we must earnestly hope that will succeed, for which we need effective powers to enforce sanctions and under Article 51, we believe we have them. But it is no earthly good trying to go beyond that.
You and I could not possibly have foreseen six weeks ago where we would be now. We do not know the situation in six weeks time. What we do know is that we must have sufficient forces in that region first to deter, then also naval forces in the Gulf to have the means to apprehend and stop people who are sanctions-breaking and we look at it, we meet every day. A military option has not been ruled out but the deterrence on the one hand and defence plus effective sanctions should bring pressure to bear on Iraq to get out of Kuwait.
Question
Prime Minister, you talked about effectively imposing the embargo. As that mainly means naval action, would the existence of the hostages deter you from taking naval action?
Prime Minister
Of course, it may mean naval action; as you know, some naval action has already been taken. [end p8]
Question
Would the hostages stop you taking effective naval action?
Prime Minister
No, that would be to go to Saddam Hussein 's tactics of using human beings as bargaining counters. Human beings have their own rights as human beings and you do not sink to the level of using them as bargaining counters ever. You go into them on the Vienna Convention, you get the International Red Cross, and we do as much as we can in our embassies there and our people who man those embassies are also very anxious that they do as much as possible and of course, are prepared to take the necessary risks of staying there.
Question (Sky News)
Do you judge that you have the overwhelming support of the British public for the action you have decided on?
Prime Minister
Yes!
Question (Same Lady)
How can you judge?
Prime Minister
You just can judge if you are in politics. You judge by your instincts, you judge by the news which comes in, you judge by the opinion. [end p9]
Question (Same Lady)
How worried are you, though, about those relative and friends of the people who are hostages?
Prime Minister
Very worried, of course, but one is also very worried that unless Saddam Hussein is stopped, no state will be safe; he will have substituted the rule of force for the rule of law—then no-one is safe. At the moment, he has chemical weapons. As you know, he has used them.
You simply cannot leave the situation as it is if you believe in the rule of law.
You are always the one who asks these questions! I think I have to ask you one! Do you believe in an international rule of law and that it should be upheld? (presumably the questioner nods)
Excellent! Thank you!
Question
Prime Minister, have you discussed the possible recall of Parliament and what are your feelings on the subject?
Prime Minister
I think the time may come when it is advisable to recall Parliament. I do not think that that time has yet arrived.
Alex Brodie (BBC Radio)
You said that Saddam Hussein has to be stopped. Do we take it that a mere withdrawal from Kuwait will not therefore be enough? [end p10]
Prime Minister
No! Indeed, the United Resolution at the moment is such—summarising it—that Kuwait must be restored as an independent country and the rulers restored who are fully in charge of it and that the Iraqis must withdraw. The means is the defence of all the other Gulf States, to protect them because no other state is safe while such a person could in fact, without any danger to himself, carry on in such a way; and also in order to persuade him to withdraw by the best means we can at the moment, which is the United Nations Resolution on sanctions.
It is still the same strategy. So that strategy remains and I most earnestly hope it will succeed. It is most likely to succeed if we have effective means of imposing the sanctions. We believe we already have them at law because we have Article 51 of the United Nations Charter and we have the formal request from Shaikh Jaber al-Ahmed al-Jaber al-Sabahthe Emir of Kuwait.
Question
Prime Minister, if he withdraws, he still has chemical weapons and is still a danger. Will you not have to do more than make him withdraw?
Prime Minister
We shall, in fact, have succeeded if Saddam Husseinhe withdraws from Kuwait by the means of sanctions and, of course, it will then be for consideration how far other countries wish to ask us to stay in their areas to deter any other possible attack.
But let us get our objective, which is Saddam Hussein—Iraq [end p11] —withdraws from Kuwait. That would be a very considerable objective to have attained.
David Russell
May I ask you view on the response of the petrol companies to the Gulf crisis? Do you think the petrol price increases are justified?
Prime Minister
I cannot tell you precisely. We have made an appeal that the prices should not be any higher than is strictly necessary.
What any company will say is that they only have a certain amount of stock and with a commodity like oil, which is very difficult to store, you do not have a great deal of stock and therefore, you are having to replace stock which you bought at 13, 14, 15 dollars a barrel with stock which you are now buying at 28 or 29 dollars a barrel and you must, in fact, have the means to do that, if possible without recourse to borrowing.
So you have got the two factors to consider; they cannot stay in business unless they can replace their stock and stock at the moment has to be replaced at well over twice what they were paying for some of the stock which they are now selling.
John Fisher (Daily Mail)
Mrs. Thatcher, you referred to the possibility that you were considering now increasing the contribution of British Forces out there. Does that mean that you are now considering putting in land forces? [end p12]
Prime Minister
We are considering what other contribution we can make. Sometimes, you need people round your aircraft to defend the aircraft and the airfields but I cannot tell you any more until I get a recommendation.
We are thinking of it particularly in relation to the other countries, the Emirates and Bahrein.
Question (ABC News)
Prime Minister, are you satisfied with the current level of Soviet cooperation or do you expect more in the light of President Gorbachev 's Odessa speech?
Prime Minister
I think that there is very close cooperation being operated, particularly through Jim Baker and Shevardnadze, who seem to be in very close cooperation.
It is not always easy to know precisely what has been said, but the Soviet Union has supported the United Nations Resolutions very firmly. It is reported that there may have been something which indicated that the Soviet Union said that offers from Iraq should be considered. May I make it quite clear you do not bargain over hostages—you do everything you can to secure the release of your people because that is international law and you act in solidarity to do that.
I would be very surprised indeed if the Soviet Union ever expected one to bargain with the lives of one's own nationals because if you do that, in the end all you do is give those who use [end p13] such tactics the idea that all they have to do is to take more hostages—and that, as you know, we never do. That is why one never bargains.
Question (BBC TV)
Will the presence of the hostages, if it came to military action, deter or determine the sort of military action?
Prime Minister
I have already answered that question—I have no other, different answer to give to the one I have already given.