PRIME MINISTER
Engagemenets
Q1. Mr. Ward
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 22 March 1990.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further meetings later today. This evening I shall speak at a dinner of the Royal Society, along with the Prime Ministers of Norway and Sweden, to conclude the international conference on surface water acidification.
Mr. Ward
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the widespread welcome for the Government's determination to encourage saving and, in particular, for the Chancellor's announcement of the big increase in capital which may be held before people are no longer eligible for community charge rebates and housing and other benefits?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes his own point. This was a vital part of my right hon. Friend John Majorthe Chancellor's very popular Budget for savers. It is right to recognise the conscientious efforts of people who have saved over the years especially for their retirement, and that is precisely what the Budget does.
Mr. Kinnock
I welcome the fact that the Government have made a positive response to the demands that I and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) made to the effect that retrospective payments should be given to people in Scotland who were denied poll tax rebates because of their modest savings. May I say, however, that this is ignominious retreat by Her Majesty's Government still deals with only one of the multitude of injustices in Scotland, England and Wales arising out of the poll tax?
Does the Prime Minister not think that it would be proper for the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Chancellor of the Exchequer to come to the House today to make full statements and to be available for questioning by hon. Members in all parts of the House? Is it not clear from the series of events between Tuesday's Budget and today that the poll tax cannot really be mitigated by concessions and that only abolition will do?
[column 1233]The Prime Minister
No. The community charge will be very popular—[Interruption.] with people living alone, such as widows and widowers, who for years have paid high rates and who will be far better off paying a fair and reasonable community charge. Those people—often people who have saved all their lives—have been ignored by Opposition Members.
With regard to the announcement made by my right hon. and learned Friend Malcolm Rifkindthe Secretary of State for Scotland—[Hon. Members: “When?” ] earlier today, he will be considering—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. This is a matter that the House wishes to hear about.
The Prime Minister
He will be considering with colleagues and with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities how a simple and workable scheme—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. The House is anxious to hear the details of what the Prime Minister has to say. She must be given an opportunity to say it.
The Prime Minister
They will consider how a simple and workable scheme of ex grater payments can be devised. It will be a scheme administered and funded by the Scottish Office from within its existing resources. [Hon. Members: “Ah!” ] My right hon. and learned Friend will report the proposals to the House as soon as the details of a Scottish scheme have been fully worked out. I stress that the scheme is an ex gratia one—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. These are important matters.
Hon. Members
What about a statement?
The Prime Minister
I stress that the scheme will be an ex gratia one. No new legal rights to retrospective payments will be created. There could be no new legal rights on a major statement in a Budget going far wider than the community charge, so the arguments that Ministers have made against formal retrospection stand. My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has said that as soon as the scheme is fully worked out after consultation he will make a full statement to the House.
Mr. Kinnock
In view of what the Prime Minister has just said and the interest on both sides of the House in the arrangements that the Government are making, why could not the Secretary of State for Scotland come to the House today and make a statement? Is it simply that he is afraid to acknowledge plainly the Government's gross incompetence?
The Prime Minister
I note that the right hon. Gentleman thinks that the excellent proposals that we have made in the Budget were gross incompetence. They were in fact very good and very generous and could not possibly have been announced when a Labour Government were in charge of the economy.
With regard to the way in which people in Scotland are treated—[Interruption.] Hon. Members want to ask questions, but they do not want to listen to the answers. Government expenditure per head of population is £2,100 in England, £2,800 in Scotland.
[column 1234]Q2. Mrs. Maureen Hicks
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 22 March.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mrs. Hicks
When the law makers opposite become law breakers and stick to their campaign to encourage people not to pay the community charge and to break the law, as part of which they have invited leading highly paid pop stars to the Palace of Westminster next Monday, is that not a disgusting and highly irresponsible example to set the young people whom we represent?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. It is totally and utterly wrong to break the law, and very wrong to encourage by example young people to break the law. I trust that the Leader of the Opposition will disown this latest manifestation of intent to break the law—or does he depend too much on the 30 hon. Members whose action has made it clear that they should not belong to the Labour party?
Mr. Sillars
On the question of competence, is the Prime Minister aware that, of all the Prime Ministers I have seen in the House, none has ever given a more incompetent performance than hers in answering a question from the Leader of the Opposition? Is not it true that the total value of the poll tax rebate concession in 1990 will be £120 million and that, proportionately, Scotland should receive between £10 million and £12 million but as today's so-called concession is worth only about £4 million the Prime Minister is robbing Peter to pay Paul? What has she got against the Scottish people that she must add insult to injury?
The Prime Minister
The figure of £4 million is correct. I have mentioned the generous arrangements per head for Scotland with regard to public expenditure. With regard to the community charge, the aggregate Exchequer grant to Scotland towards local expenditure, plus the business rate, meets 80 per cent. of local authority expenditure. In England the aggregate Exchequer grant, plus business rate, meets only 70 per cent. of local authority expenditure. Scotland is far better off than England with regard to help from the taxpayer for local authority expenditure.
Q3. Mr. Anthony Coombs
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 22 March.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Coombs
Will my right hon. Friend confirm the comment made last week by the director-general of the Confederation of British Industry, who said that not only is manufacturing output in this country at an all-time record level but exports are rising twice as quickly as world trade generally? Our share of world trade is also rising, and we now export more per person even than Japan. Does my right hon. Friend agree with the vast majority of British business men that the one way to put that trend disastrously into reverse would be to adopt the high-taxation, low-incentive and high-spending policies of the Labour party?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I am happy to confirm that last year [column 1235]manufacturing output reached an all-time record, as did manufacturing investment. This morning's trade figures show that since December our exports rose by 11 per cent. over last year's figure. Our imports are stable, which provides further clear evidence that the deficit is narrowing and that our policies are working. I note that under the last Labour Government manufacturing production actually fell.
Mr. Nigel Griffiths
Will the Prime Minister join me in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar), who led the campaign to get justice——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I am not certain that that falls within the Prime Minister's responsibilities.
Mr. Griffiths
Will the Prime Minister, as she is responsible—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. Come on, please.
Mr. Griffiths
Will the Prime Minister recognise that many people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will feel that it is unfair that they have been unable to claim rebates on their rates this year because they have more than £8,000? Will she examine the injustice of that as well?
The Prime Minister
I congratulate my right hon. Friend John Majorthe Chancellor on the excellent Budget—[Interruption.]—on the excellent and generous provision that he made for capital disregards for a wide range of income benefits, and on a very good savers' Budget.
Q4. Mr. Oppenheim
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 22 March.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Oppenheim
Would my right hon. Friend like to contrast last Tuesday's Budget with certain previous Budgets? Does she recollect that before certain previous Budgets people used to queue to stock up in case prices rose too much? Does she also recollect that in some of those Budgets certain savings were taxed at a rate of 98 per cent., which led the New Statesman to assert that the Labour Government were driving the country from affluence into bankruptcy? Does the Prime Minister agree that whatever economic problems we have now are as nothing compared with those bequeathed by the last Labour Government?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend and with the vigorous way in which he put his question. It [column 1236]is strange to see the Opposition supporting a savers' Budget when their whole policy was to put a savings tax on investment income. It was this Government who took it off.
Mr. Ashdown
In view of this afternoon's humiliating turnaround in which Scotland was again treated as an afterthought, does the Prime Minister realise what a shambles her Government have descended to? She tells us that her Government is about leadership, but are there not now more Cabinet Ministers travelling behind the elephant clearing up the mess than in front telling it where to go?
The Prime Minister
I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman could do better than that. My right hon. Friend John Majorthe Chancellor has said that from 1 April this year the capital disregard for four income support benefits is to be put up to as high as £16,000. I am surprised that the Liberal-whatever-it's-called party is not grateful for that. The Government whom it supported in office could never have done such a generous thing—their disregards would have been much lower. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the disregards at that time were about £2,000.
Q5. Mr. Hind
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 22 March.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Lady—[Interruption.]—my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago. [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order.
Mr. Hind
My right hon. Friend will be aware of the deep, wounding insult to the people of the north-west made by the shadow sports Minister, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Small Heath (Mr. Howell), in undermining Manchester's bid for the Olympic games. Will she reaffirm that it is the intention of the Government to support Manchester's bid and to do all that they possibly can to ensure that the games come to Manchester?
The Prime Minister
Yes, we wholeheartedly support Manchester's bid for the 1996 Olympics. The city has put together an excellent brochure which shows how well Lancashire and the north-west have done under a Tory Government, and how they have been able to put up such a good bid. I hope that Manchester will be successful.
Several Hon. Members
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker
I will take points of order after business questions.