PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Tom Clarke
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 31 January.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Clarke
What explanation, excuse or apology does the Prime Minister have to offer for the appalling increase in unemployment figures announced this morning? Is this what the Foreign Secretary had in mind when, in a speech on Friday, he said that the Tory record on jobs was “second to none” ?
The Prime Minister
This month's figures are, of course, disappointing, although there is always a substantial increase in unemployment in January. For example, in 1975 the increase was 118,000 and in 1976, 102,000. These figures emphasise all the more the need to control unit wage costs. Over the year to the second quarter of 1984 our wage costs rose by over 5 per cent. compared with between 2 and 3 per cent. in France and Italy, 0 per cent. in Germany, minus 0.5 per cent. in the United States and minus 5 per cent. in Japan.
Q2. Mr. Phillip Oppenheim
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Oppenheim
Does my right hon. Friend agree that since many of the problems with which the nation is now grappling were caused by some of the policies followed by some of the Prime Ministers who have been honoured by Oxford university, it might be a vindication of her policies that she has not been so honoured?
The Prime Minister
I understand and appreciate the concern which prompts my hon. Friend to ask that question. I think he will agree that many distinguishing people have been honoured by Oxford and been given honourary degrees. Whether those degrees are offered is wholly a matter for Oxford university and it must remain that way.
Mr. Kinnock
In view of the appalling rise of 150,000 in unemployment over the last year and the remorselessly rising trend, will the Prime Minister tell us at what point she will change her policies and take the wise counsel of the Earl of Stockton and others of her elders and betters?
The Prime Minister
I noted what my noble Friend the Earl of Stockton said in the other place. May I point out that when he was in power there was one part of his policy which I would be absolutely delighted to adopt——
Mr. Winnick
One?
The Prime Minister
Many. I was a member of the same Government—he honoured me in that way. Indeed, my noble Friend was careful to keep the proportion of the national income which was taken by public spending down to 33 per cent. Today it is 42 per cent. The Leader of the Opposition should join me in trying to get the proportion of public expenditure reduced.
[column 410]Mr. Kinnock
Has the Prime Minister just made a policy statement, or is she going to continue with the vast decrease in public expenditure which has come about under the Government simply and solely because of her insistence on sustaining high unemployment? If she will reduce the levels of unemployment to those of the years when Mr. Harold Macmillan was Prime Minister, we will talk about a reduction in public spending.
The Prime Minister
Earl of StocktonMy right hon. Friend had a low percentage of public spending and a low level of unemployment. If the right hon. Gentleman thinks that the difference between then and now in unemployment and spending can in fact account for 10 percentage points he really should study his figures. What he is trying to do is to increase the amount of public spending, which does not help to create an enterprising society. In the meantime, may I point out to him that the number of new jobs is still rising, the number of unemployed school leavers is lower than last year, and I am sure he will be pleased to know that the proportion of population of working age in work is higher than in West Germany, higher than in France, higher than in Italy and equal to that in the United States of America.
Mr. Tracey
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that never in her term of office has she had to cause her car to make a U-turn at Heathrow airport, following the example of the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) during the sterling crisis?
The Prime Minister
I am glad to confirm that. That is where the Opposition's policies landed them and that is where their policies would land the country again if ever they were implemented.
Dr. Owen
Now that the Governor of the Bank of England has said that it would have been easier to check the slide in the pound if we had been a member of the exchange rate mechanism of the European monetary system, will the Prime Minister stop shilly-shallying and join the EMS within the next few days?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have always said that we shall join the exchange rate mechanism of the EMS when we believe that the time is appropriate. It is kept under review from time to time, but I must make one thing clear. Joining the EMS would not obviate increases in interest rates, it would not obviate the need for financial discipline and, indeed, it might increase it.
Q3. Mr. Strang
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Strang
Will the Prime Minister again explain to the House why she is opposed to the resumption of negotiations without preconditions between the National Union of Mineworkers and the National Coal Board? Is it because she is intent on trying to humiliate the executive of the NUM—[Hon. Members: “Why not” ?]—no matter how long that prolongs the strike and how much further damage it inflicts on our national economy?
The Prime Minister
I am anxious that, if talks are to be entered into, following seven rounds which have not been successful, they should be successful. The hon. Gentleman talks of humiliation. If the miners have been [column 411]humiliated, they have been humiliated by the executive, which did not allow them a ballot, by the executive which has prevented them from accepting the best offer since nationalisation, by the executive which has lost them an average of £8,000 per miner and has made their families suffer great privation and some intimidation and violence. That is the humiliation that they have suffered.
Q4. Mr. Teddy Taylor
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Taylor
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the serious concern among those who gave generously to assist Ethiopia that aid ships are being held up by Soviet weapon ships and that free aid food is openly being sold on the black market while starvation continues? Will she and other Western leaders take an initiative to impress upon the Ethiopian Government that the aid must get through to those who need it?
The Prime Minister
We make every effort to ensure that the aid gets through to those who need it and the Hercules are very material in ensuring that. So far as I know, most aid gets through and very little goes on to the black market. A number of ships have been unloaded recently. I understand that on 24 January one Soviet ship unloaded arms at Assab but that this was not to the detriment of the unloading of grain, which takes priority.
Mr. Heffer
Will the Prime Minister take a few minutes out of her time today to re-read the prayer of peace of St. Francis of Assisi, which she read on the steps of No. 10 when she was elected? Will she relate it to her attitude to heating allowances for the old, the position of the unemployed and in particular her vindictive attitude towards the National Union of Mineworkers?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman's question contains its own contradictions. I understand that he is fully behind a strike which attempts to deprive people of power for industry and heat for their houses. His intention and that of others who support the miners' strike is to deprive people of heating in their houses. He attempts to masquerade as their protecter, but he is in fact depriving them of heat.
Q5. Mr. John M. Taylor
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Taylor
Will my right hon. Friend comment on the overwhelming vote by which the engineering union has chosen to accept finance for ballots? Would not the Labour party and other trade unions do well to take note of that?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend knows, we passed that legislation to ensure that ordinary members of trade unions would have the right to vote on certain occasions, always for the officers of their unions and sometimes before strikes. It is very good that main, big unions are taking advantage of that legislation, which was passed by this Government.
[column 412]Q6. Mr. Terry Davis
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Davis
How many more people must lose their jobs before the Chancellor of the Exchequer loses his?
The Prime Minister
The policy being run by my right hon. Friend Nigel Lawsonthe Chancellor of the Exchequer is the one that will restore enterprise to this country. If we do not get more businesses and expansion of businesses we shall never have a rising standard of living. My right hon. Friend's policies are the right ones. The Opposition would finish up at the IMF again.
Q7. Mr. Squire
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Squire
May I remind my right hon. Friend that next Tuesday is the 25th anniversary of her maiden speech, in which she introduced legislation to make council meetings open? May I assure her that many right hon. and hon. Members hope that her campaigning zeal in that area of accountability has in no way been reduced?
The Prime Minister
I am well aware of the significance of my hon. Friend's question. I shall look at the Bill very closely.
Mr. Robert C. Brown
Does the Prime Minister believe that confession is good for the soul? [Hon. Members: “What soul?” ] If so, when can we expect a penitent Prime Minister at the Dispatch Box to confess to the nation that her economic policies have been generally a monumental disaster for the whole of the country and a crucifixion for the north-east of England?
The Prime Minister
I note that the hon. Gentleman regards the lowest level of inflation for 16 years and the highest standard of living as something that he does not like. We think it is rather good.
Q9. Ms. Clare Short
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 January.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Lady to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Ms. Short
Will the Prime Minister admit that everything she promised in 1979 from her economic policies has failed to come about, that the economy has been gravely damaged, that people are suffering from unemployment and that she owes it to the country to change her economic policies?
The Prime Minister
The fact is that, far from those policies not having come about, inflation is at its lowest level, we have the highest standard of living this country has ever known, some 1.7 more million people are owner-occupiers, since 1979 there has been an increase of 20 per cent. in real terms in expenditure on the Health Service, pensioners have received increases in their pensions in excess of the rate of inflation and we have the highest amount of heating allowance that we have ever had. That is good, even if the hon. Lady does not recognise it.