John Frazer
The first question I would like to ask you, Prime Minister, is about the Summit itself. What was the Greek problem that led to the … what was the Greek problem that led to the virtual veto of Greece on the accession of Spain and Portugal to the EEC?
Prime Minister
The Greek problem was that she had been promised, and we had all agreed, that there would be certain sums made available to enable her economy to adapt, because there would be much more competition from Spain and Portugal and some surpluses in some things, which meant that all of those Mediterranean countries had to make certain changes in their own economies. For that, certain sums were set aside to enable them to do that over a period of years.
Now, she had been expecting far far far larger sums than any of us really could possibly provide. Unfortunately, very big sums had been mentioned in the Commission without any reference to the countries that would have to provide those sums. Now, when your appetite has been whetted, naturally you are disappointed when a very much smaller dish is placed in front of you; and that really was the problem. [end p1]
John Frazer
So how did this link in with the Greek veto? Are you saying that they vetoed the accession, or the negotiations on the accession, of Spain and Portugal because they did not get this money?
Prime Minister
It is very difficult to explain just exactly what has happened. We have agreed on all of the things, all of the details, with which we would negotiate with Spain, and we have made great strides on agreeing what should happen to wine, because as you know there is a surplus there, and we have agreed how it should be got down. That is a great plus. We have agreed on fish. We had also previously an agreed position on industrial tariffs. All of those we agreed, so everything is ready to negotiate with Spain and Portugal.
As I understand it, Greece has agreed that those negotiations can go ahead, but when they are complete they all have to be referred back to the Council and Greece will then have to take a decision, but right now she is saying: “No, we are blocking the accession of Spain or Portugal.” I hope she will not continue to do so. It would be a deep disappointment to Spain and Portugal and all the rest of us have been working extremely hard to get them in, and it would be a great personal disappointment, I am sure, to Mr. Gonzales and Mr. Soares, both of whom I imagine know Mr. Papandreou well.
John Fraizer
How do you feel about this, though, Prime Minister, because in the last few Common Market Summits it has been you and the British Government which has been outnumbered nine to one. Now we have the Greeks [end p2] outnumbered nine to one.
Prime Minister
The problem came, as I have indicated, on the amounts of money. We worked very hard on almost everything in that programme and we agreed as much as we possibly could without having a supplementary budget for the first year, and a little spill-over to the second year, because we could not get it all into the first. We agreed a duration of six years, which was very much what she wanted, but when it came to the global sum, then her ideas and the rest of us were so totally and utterly different—that is those who have to pay and contribute to this—that there was just no meeting of minds.
Now, we had hoped that she would say: “Right, I have got my foot in the door. I have got a sum for the first year and I have got agreement that we can come back, we Greece, can come back every year for up to six years” and we hoped that she would accept the text which pretty nearly all the rest of us could agree to and France was very good. France said: “Look, we will not ask for any money, although we have a Mediterranean coast, for the first year.” So we were all struggling to get it, but just, no, she had her eye on much bigger sums of money.
John Frazer
What is at stake in these negotiations to bring Spain and Portugal into the Community?
Prime Minister
Well, I think they will be very upset because they will say that it was … they will think it rather a lack of good faith, which it [end p3] certainly is not, because most of us want Spain and Portugal in. I think it is vitally important for the future of democracy in Europe, for stability and peace in Europe, and throughout the wider world. My goodness, the one thing the world needs is a larger area of peace and stability. We enlarge that in Western Europe. We are doing not only ourselves a favour, but the rest of the world too, and if we do the rest of the world a favour, again, we are doing ourselves a favour.
John Frazer
Turning away from the Summit agenda itself, you managed to have a couple of informal meeting with your Irish opposite number, Dr. Garret FitzGerald. There had been a rift between the British and Irish Governments, certainly as depicted in the Irish press, following your press conference after the Chequers Summit last month. Do you think the differences have now been cleared and you are back on friendly relations?
Prime Minister
Well, you see, there were not really any differences between Garret FitzGerald and myself and I still find it difficult to know how that row blew up. I gave a press conference wide open to everyone. At the press conference, no-one thought what I said was strange or unusual nor even did they remark upon it, and there were many of our Irish ladies and gentlemen of the press there. They knew what I said about the conclusions of the Forum Report, what had been said many many times before. They knew that in the communique the total rejection of violence, the necessity for peace and stability in Northern Ireland and the recognition by each community of the feelings of the other, all that was in the early part of the Forum Report; all of which we agreed with, and we put the fundamental things in the [end p4] communique.
John Frazer
So what went wrong?
Prime Minister
They did not look at everything. They looked at one thing and they complained that when they asked me a direct question they got a direct answer.
John Frazer
I believe that you are also worried about the way in which this was depicted on television?
Prime Minister
I was absolutely amazed, as I said. So unremarkable was the whole press conference in that room and no-one remarked upon it and no-one thought that it had been anything other than a very interesting, valuable, successful, constructive press conference. Somehow, when they just took one short clip of a question and answer on one screen, two dimensions only, it came over in the Republic differently, and that of course is sometimes what happens. We give a press conference, say half an hour or say three-quarters, and you can judge the whole thing. You give a whole communique, you can judge the whole thing. You select a couple of sentences or answers out of it and it can give a very very different impression. But I assure you there was no rift. The Chequers meeting was constructive. We said talks would continue. They will continue and I look forward to them continuing.
John Frazer
Has this been a difficult Summit for you, Prime Minister, with [end p5] the helicopters, the tight security and all the other problems?
Prime Minister
No, no, no. I am very grateful to Garret FitzGerald and to the Garda and to the Irish Army for the attention they have given to security. They have been absolutely marvellous and I would like them to know how much we appreciate it.