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PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Mr. Warren

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 17 February.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. After my duties in the House I shall be leaving for a visit to the north-west of England.

Mr. Warren

During the course of her busy day will my right hon. Friend consider the need to look beyond the battle of words about military force levels and the bomb, and try to get to the Soviet Union an understanding, through that Iron Curtain that divides us from them, that it is seen as the threat to peace in the West?

The Prime Minister

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Soviet leadership must understand that its remorseless military build-up, deployment of SS20s and the use of force beyond its borders constitute a threat to peace.

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Mr. Dobson

In view of the Prime Minister's announcement that she subscribes to many of the Victorian values, will she tell the House which she most fancies reintroducing—the absence of a National Health Service, the absence of old-age pensions, the workhouse, or a long series of colonial wars?

The Prime Minister

What I favour is acceptance of personal responsibility, freedom of choice and a British Empire that took both freedom and the rule of law to countries that would never have known it otherwise.

Mr. Neubert

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in 1970 I was effectively denied a seat in the House by the Labour Government's deliberate failure to implement the proposals of the Boundary Commission? Is it not clear from last night's disgraceful performance by the Opposition that, having received an unfavourable verdict in the courts, the Labour party is once again seeking to thwart democracy and avoid another unfavourable verdict in the ballot box?

The Prime Minister

I agree that the Boundary Commission's decisions are independent——

Mr. Canavan

Tell us another one.

The Prime Minister

The testing through the courts was independent and it is now up to parliamentary democracy to put through those decisions with all possible speed.

Q2. Mrs. McElhone

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 17 February.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Member to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mrs. McElhone

Will the Prime Minister take time to reflect on how she misled women at the last general election by her confidence trick—[Hon. Members: “Reading.” ]—of portraying herself as an ordinary housewife and mother? Mothers are suffering because of her policies and through seeing their husbands and children unemployed. Youngsters in my constituency are reaching their 21st birthday without even having a first job. Will the Prime Minister give thee long-suffering people some hope by calling a general election in June?

The Prime Minister

I have noted the hon. Lady's recommendation and will consider it, but I must tell her that I have not yet made up my mind and there is plenty of time to do so.

Unemployment is indeed a grievous problem in the hon. Lady's area. I am sure that she will be pleased to know that in her area, the west of Scotland special development area, the first of 1,400 defence jobs scheduled for Glasgow will come in the first week of March. The Government have placed an order worth £250 million for two type 22 frigates with the area's shipbuilders——

Mr. Skinner

Reading.

The Prime Minister

I am giving an accurate account of the jobs that are going to that area. Lilley Construction, a subsidiary of the Glasgow-based engineering and construction firm FJC Lilley, has won a £37.6 million contract for a water supply project in Nigeria. A £30 million project planned for Glasgow's dockland has been announced by the Clyde water authority, which will also bring a large number of jobs. [column 465]

I am sure that the hon. Lady will join me in being very pleased about those new jobs.

Mr. Rost

Has the Prime Minister noticed that Socialist-controlled Derbyshire county council proposes to increase the rates by three times the going rate of inflation? Is it not disgraceful that Socialist councils up and down the country are creating more unemployment by inflicting price increases on businesses struggling to remain competitive?

The Prime Minister

I agree that placing heavy extra rate burdens on industry and commerce will mean that they cannot keep their prices competitive. That may mean that people who now have jobs will lose them because of high-rating Socialist authorities.

Mr. Foot

As the right hon. Lady says that she is willing to accept personal responsibility in some of these matters—in the case of unemployment that is quite a novelty on her part—does she accept responsibility for reports in The Guardian today claiming that in many Government Departments measures are being prepared to attack various aspects of the welfare state? How far have those discussions gone and when will they be published?

The Prime Minister

As the right hon. Gentleman knows full well, we do not intend to dismantle the welfare state. Our record with regard to the National Health Service is far better than that of the Labour Government. It should come as no surprise to the right hon. Gentleman or to the people of this country to know that, unlike the Labour party, the Government are determined to give individuals and their families more choice and more freedom to exercise responsibility and to seek better value for money and better management throughout the public sector. We are very proud of that.

Mr. Foot

If the right hon. Lady accepts responsibility for that report, will she answer the questions apparently put by one of her Whitehall advisers on this matter? Have the people who drew up the report never been to Merseyside or Brixton? How can people become more self-reliant in the north-west when four out of five school leavers are unemployed? If the Government believes in free choice, why are they not ready to give mothers the choice of going to work or staying at home? Will the right hon. Lady accept responsibility for all those questions?

The Prime Minister

The way to get more jobs is not by rhetoric from the right hon. Gentleman but by having well designed goods at competitive prices. That means keeping rates low and wages hand in hand with productivity, and keeping inflation down. Only that will achieve more jobs, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows. If he can go out and create a business that achieves that, jolly good luck to him.

Mr. Foot

Will the right hon. Lady tell us what is the latest mass unemployment figure for which she is responsible?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is aware of the unemployment figure. He is also aware that unemployment is very much higher than it used to be in other countries, that it is a world problem—[Interruption.]—and that it will be solved not by shouting but only by people who create small businesses and expand them, which the Labour party is not outstanding at achieving.

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Supplementary Benefit Households (Children)

Q3. Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

asked the Prime Minister how many children were in households living on supplementary benefit in May 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1982, respectively; and if she will estimate the comparable figure for May 1983.

The Prime Minister

The information that is available for the years in question is as follows:

The estimated figure for May 1983 is 1.75 million.

Mr. Bennett

Does the Prime Minister accept that those are extremely depressing figures and represent a considerable restriction of freedom for a large number of people? In view of her belief in freedom, will she ensure that in the next Budget any money that is available will go to families with children, to reduce the number of people living in poverty and to increase their freedom?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentleman will know that the number of children living on supplementary benefit also rose considerably during the lifetime of the Labour Government. Indeed, the figures for November 1979 and December 1980 were below the peak figures under the Labour Government. With regard to what we have done for children on supplementary benefit, the real value of that benefit has doubled since it started. Moreover, between November 1978 and November 1982, the period about which the hon. Gentleman asks, the Government increased the scale rates for children on supplementary benefit by 100 per cent. for the under-fives and the 11 to 12-year-olds and 65 per cent. for other children. In the same period, the RPI rose by only 56 per cent.

Mr. McCrindle

Does the Prime Minister agree that taking the figures in isolation, as the hon. Gentleman did, gives no indication of the situation of the family? Does she not welcome the creation of the family policy unit to assess the overall effect of Government policy on the family? Does not that make the position of the family under this Government infinitely clearer than do the hon. Gentleman's figures?

The Prime Minister

Yes, we have created a family policy unit to take into account all policies and their effects on the family. I gave the figures for increases in supplementary benefit to demonstrate the priority that we have tried to give to the needs of those children.

Engagements

Q4. Mr. Greenway

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 17 February.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Greenway

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in a quarter of all comprehensive schools there is no religious or moral education beyond the third year and that the Religious Education Advisory Council says that in two [column 467]thirds of primary schools religious education on the curriculum is confused and the teachers in those schools are not qualified to improve the situation? Does she agree that the moral fibre of the nation will be greatly undermined unless something is done to rectify that?

Mr. Dobson

It is the F-Plan again.

The Prime Minister

I agree that religious education could be much better taught in schools. I remember from my days as Secretary of State for Education and Science that it is a legal requirement that there should be an act of collective worship and full religious education in schools. The local education authority, school governors and head teachers are responsible for seeing that the requirements of the law are carried out.

Mr. Roy Jenkins

Is the Prime Minister aware that there is a great new wave of concern in Scotland—[Interruption.]—over the Secretary of State's words about the future—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is thoroughly unfair to the right hon. Gentleman. The House knows that it is unfair. The right hon. Gentleman must be heard.

Mr. Jenkins

Is the Prime Minister aware that there is a great new wave of concern in Scotland over the words of the Secretary of State about the future of the Ravenscale—[Interruption.]—Ravenscraig steelworks——

Mr. Skinner

Someone help him.

Mr. Jenkins

—with only a limited capability? Can the right Lady give a further assurance for the future?

The Prime Minister

I cannot add to the words of my right hon. Friend Patrick Jenkinthe Secretary of State. The right hon. Gentleman will remember that my right hon. Friend made it clear that Ravenscraig, along with the other four main British Steel Corporation plants, is to be kept open until we can better see what is the required capacity for steel in [column 468]the future. It is important to keep those plants open so that when there is an expansion of the market we have good bargaining power with Europe to see that we get a full and proper share of steel making in this country.

Mr. Faulds

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Prime Minister was asked a question about Victorian standards. From her answer——

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman knows, before he goes any further, that the content of answers is not a matter on which I rule in this House, and that he must hope to catch my eye at another Prime Minister's Question Time. That is his best remedy. I hope that the hon. Gentleman has a real point of order. If so I shall listen. The hon. Gentleman will know whether he has a real point of order.

Mr. Faulds

Since the hon. Lady's answer revealed the fact that she knows nothing about the complexity, the richness and the order of pre-colonial cultures, can a series of lessons be arranged to enlighten her ignorance?

Mr. Speaker

Order. That intervention was as useful as I thought it would be.

Mr. Faulds

Ignorant woman—as she is about most subjects.

Mr. Skinner

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that during Prime Minister's Question Time you were able to call the hon. Member for Derbyshire, South-East (Mr. Rost). I thought for a moment or two that there would be a response from someone on the Labour side to defend the labour-controlled Derbyshire county council. I hoped that——

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman has said more than enough for me to know that that is not a point of order.