Interviewer
Mrs. Thatcher, there are more than three million people unemployed, there are millions apparently below the poverty line, now what hope can you offer those people in the new year?
Mrs. Thatcher
To some extent the new year will be what we make of it. As you know, there seems to be a spending spree at the end of this year, we've all been told of people spending a lot of money in the shops and the figures show that they have spent a lot. Now if that money is going largely on foreign goods then we shall be short of jobs in Britain next year, so to some extent it depends upon what people choose to buy here. Now I never urge them to buy things which are of bad value or bad design and we want people to buy British because it's best so you've really got two things: you're saying to the housewife and the person who's earning here—‘please buy as much British as you can’ and you are saying to him in his capacity as a producer—‘design as well as you can, produce as well as you can, service and deliver and don't strike.’ and if we do those things, then we'll have more jobs.
Interviewer
But that's a long-term recipe isn't it? I was asking about three million unemployed, about millions below the poverty line, that doesn't seem to offer them very much immediate prospect of improvement—.
Mrs. Thatcher
But, surely, you're asking me what can be done. The long-term recipes are the true ones. What I am saying is that if people stagger home from their shopping spree with their bags full of foreign goods, having bought foreign cars, foreign washing machines, foreign refrigerators, all the things which could be bought in Britain, then really it is not surprising if we have fewer jobs here than we want. Governments can't determine what the housewife shall buy in a free society, she will buy what is best value, so it's a combination and there's no point in your trying to duck the issue, no point at all. What's this microphone you and I are wearing? Where was it made, do you know?
Interviewer
Probably made in Japan, without looking at it.
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, why don't we produce more of the things here?
Interviewer
But nevertheless, ministers in the past have talked about economic recovery—I know they don't seem to so much any more, but they did in the past—can you say anything about when you think a recovery might occur in this country?
Mrs. Thatcher
But I have just been saying to you—if we produce better, design better and buy British we shall get a larger share of the home market. You are seeing that people are spending money, so the money is about, the demand is there, it's people and shoppers that in fact will see whether we get more, a bigger share, of the market here. You'll try to go round and round the question. [end p1]
Interviewer
You make it sound as if the government has got nothing to do with it.
Mrs. Thatcher
No, the government has a good deal to do with it. The government has to keep inflation down—it's kept inflation down. The government has to try to keep interest rates down—we've struggled and have kept them down, very interesting that in a labour survey we did towards the end of this year, we discovered some 800,000 people who were self-employed whom we didn't know about. Now that means that there is a possibility, if you've got a good idea, of borrowing money to start up on your own. We've been making money available to small businesses by guaranteeing it, we've been doing a great deal to help the person to start up on their own. We've been seeing that government doesn't borrow too much to compete with what businesses want to borrow. All of that has been done: inflation down, interest rates, I'd like both still lower, government's borrowing down, giving as much help as we can to the new technology. And as you know, for example in Scotland there are more people employed in the new electronics than there are either in steel or in shipbuilding. After that we have to try to get a bigger share of the home market and a bigger share of world markets. That depends on what industry and commerce can do.
Interviewer
Can I just turn to the picture for those who are in work, I remember one of the conservative party promises at the election was cutting taxes and yet all but the very rich are actually paying more taxes, is there any new year hopeful message for them?
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, I think what you have forgotten is that most people are earning more, have higher incomes now than they did when we came in. Your sum is true if you look at it in relation to the existing income. If you look at it in relation to the higher incomes they are earning now, that they have now, you will find that the personal average income … is better off than they were in 1979.
Interviewer
If you had to summarise what your government has achieved, could you do that in a few sentences?
Mrs. Thatcher
Of course I could do it very well. If we have got the prospect of keeping inflation right down, we are below the rate of inflation of the past government and we are back to ten years ago. It needs to come down further. That didn't just happen, it was a very great strenuous effort to do it and will make a tremendous difference to people if we keep it down. The interest rate we managed to get down and I hope will be able to hold down. Borrowing: we've got sound finance, we are not over-ridden by budget deficits as are many, many other governments and that's why they're having a tremendous problem. Take home ownership/: we have a record number of dwellings owner-occupied now throughout time. That means that people are becoming men and women of property, that way you can get one nation. And we have in fact managed to get overmanning down in industry, we wouldn't have a single hope in industry … .
Interviewer
(interrupting) What about the unemployed in industry?
Mrs. Thatcher
… well, which do you think is better? [end p2]
Interviewer
Well, I don't know. The unemployed might well feel they'd prefer to be in a job.
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, one moment, just let's think about it because you are trying to debunk every single thing. If you have a whole industry overmanned competing against one which is efficient in Germany, who do you think is going to get the business? You have industries that are overmanned and you will have whole factories going out. Far better to have a smaller, more efficient one, at least that has the basis for expansion. All of these things … . we also have kept going … you asked me to say what we've done … . there has been a Christmas bonus for the old age pensioners this year, there was no Christmas bonus in two years under Labour. We have kept the retirement pension in line with prices, at the moment it's slightly ahead, even though we've had a very, very difficult world recession, and actually there are more doctors and more nurses in the Health Service than there were under the last government and in real terms there's been more spent on it. All of that—and we have ridden a world recession and done all of that and people now are spending quite well. Yes, we do need more jobs but we don't get them by your rhetoric or by mine and the only way we shall get them is of a way that you seem to be prepared to reject.
Interviewer
Can I ask you just one … well, a couple of last questions, one about the future. Mr. Biffen seemed to be suggesting on the radio the other day that the autumn seemed to be quite a good time for an election—is that what he was saying or is that what you think?
Mrs. Thatcher
I don't know whether he was saying that or not, we haven't yet been in power for four years, we shall not have been in power for four years until may, you don't usually turn your mind to thinking about the date of an election at all until well into the final year. I can't tell when the date is because I haven't decided.
Interviewer
Not … .
Mrs. Thatcher
I haven't decided, I shall not think about it until after we've been in power four years.
Interviewer
Right, then a last question: disarmament it appears from everything that's happening this christmas and everything that happened in the last year, is going to be a key issue in that election. The disarmers seem to be making the running at the moment in the propaganda stakes if you like—
Mrs. Thatcher
But I'm a disarmer. I want to spend less on armaments but I want to do it in a way which keeps our peace and security and our way of life, in other words I want disarmament so much that I want it to happen on both sides and to keep the balance. Oh yes, I'm a disarmer, but I'm a disarmer in a way which defends our peace and security.
Interviewer
Thank you very much indeed.