PRIME MINISTER
Factory Closures
Q1. Mr. Campbell-Savours
asked the Prime Minister how many hon. Members she has seen on matters relating to factory closures since she last answered oral questions; and how many jobs were expected to be lost in the closures mentioned.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
I have had no such meetings since 22 July.
Mr. Campbell-Savours
As the right hon. Lady's industrial strategy unfolds and more and more companies and factories close, will she take time off during the coming recess to visit not only the winners in British industry, whom she tells us she has visited over the past months, but also the losers in the areas of greatest industrial recession? Will she come to the Northern region and speak to industrial managers who want to know why she has rejected the advice of the CBI, which demanded that £1.8 billion be pushed into the economy, because it knows that that is the only way to get British workers back to work?
The Prime Minister
I have no immediate plans to visit the North-West, although during the recess I shall, as usual, be visiting Scotland. The CBI wants, above all, as was reiterated today, to see a decrease in interest rates. We cannot have that if we add £1.8 billion to the PSBR.
Mr. Grylls
Is my right hon. Friend aware that there was a gain of over 14,000 new small businesses last year [column 918]after allowing for those that closed? Does she agree that that success is in no small measure due to the changes in the law introduced by the Government to encourage the start up of businesses?
The Prime Minister
I confirm what my hon. Friend has said. John Macgregor The Under-Secretary of State for Industry has been doing an analysis of the VAT registrations and the figures for 1981 show that more companies were born than went out of business.
Mr. Foot
I understand that the right hon. Lady received representations this morning from trade unions and others about the replacement for the “Atlantic Conveyor” . Does she agree that it would be a disgrace if this replacement were built other than in a British shipyard? Will she give a clear assurance that the Government will take steps to ensure that the ship is built in a British shipyard?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, the Government share the view that the replacement for the “Atlantic Conveyor” should be built in a British shipyard. We have been active for some days to try to bring that about on a reasonable basis. As I said to those who came to see me this morning, the Government are playing a considerable part in trying to bring that about. We hope that British Shipbuilders and its work force will do all that they can to reduce costs, which are extremely important if we are to continue to receive orders. I believe that Cunard will play a patriotic part if we can narrow the gap in costs.
Mr. Foot
I press the right hon. Lady to go further, particularly in view of the somewhat subdued and equivocal response of the Secretary of State for Defence, who did not seem to be clear about the matter. The Opposition do not want the House to depart for the Summer Recess without having this matter properly settled, which will be in the interests of the workers in the shipyards. Does the right hon. Lady appreciate that when she talks about productivity she is comparing our productivity with that of Korea? Is she claiming that on that account we might allow the order to go to Korea? Will she undertake to settle this matter in favour of British shipyards before the House rises?
The Prime Minister
I strongly believe that the “Atlantic Conveyor” replacement should be built here. That is why the Government have been active and why the order was not placed earlier with the lowest bidder. Considerable subsidies have been offered, but in my judgment it is reasonable to have what I call a three-part package: first, aid from the Government on the best possible basis; secondly, as much constructive help as we can get from British Shipbuilders and the work force—and I believe that they are prepared to co-operate—and I believe that they are prepared to co-operate—and, thirdly, recognition of the problem by Cunard and Lord Matthews who, I am sure, if we can all work together, will take the patriotic view. It is reasonable to ask all the parties to co-operate.
Engagements
Q2. Mr. Delwyn Williams
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 July.
The Prime Minister
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with [column 919]representatives of the Trades Union Congress. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen.
Mr. Williams
Is my right hon. Friend not dismayed by the decision of the chief constable of Derby to accept 12 coloured youths into the service, without the normal minimum of four O-levels? Does she realise the righteous indignation of young people in my constituency and the adjacent Midlands who have eight or more O-levels and some A-levels and still cannot get into the service? Will she affirm that we are still the party of equal opportunity, and that that opportunity should be based on merit?
The Prime Minister
I understand that the suggestion of lowering either physical or education standards to recruit members of the ethnic minorities to the police was rejected by Lord Scarman. Nevertheless, he recommended that positive steps should be taken to reduce disproportionate obstacles to recruitment. The Home Office is considering the matter and a report will be produced shortly. I also understand that chief constables already have a discretion to recruit otherwise suitable candidates who are below the height limit, but I firmly believe that we should not reduce educational standards for any group.
Mrs. Shirley Williams
Has the Prime Minister seen the report of the Institute of Economic Affairs, in which it is suggested that there might be as many as 5 million unemployed at the next election? Will she repudiate that report and say that it is as much a part of patriotism to recreate hope among young people in the desolated regions of this country who are currently unemployed as it is to support what our soldiers did in the Falkland Islands?
The Prime Minister
The report is not mine in any way. I have seen only reports of a report of an article that was written by one person. The Government are doing all that they can to help young people. That is why we have such an excellent scheme to help them to get employment. Beyond that, we have to keep industries competitive and produce goods that British people will buy in preference to the increasing imports that are now coming in.
Mr. Allen McKay
Is the right hon. Lady aware of the agricultural equipment company in my constituency which won the Queen's Award for Industry—Newton and Chambers Engineering? Does she recall how she congratulated the workmen? Does she realise that those workmen are now redundant and that many other industries in the valley have gone down? Will she send sympathy to the people who have lost their jobs as a result of her Government's policy? When will they see the light at the end of the tunnel about which the right hon. Lady keeps talking?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman knows that the agricultural equipment industry is in difficulty, not only in this country, but in almost every industrial country in the Western world. That is part of the problem. We must get as large a share of the market as we can. The Government are doing as much as they can to reduce costs. The national insurance surcharge reduction announced in the Budget will take effect next week, and that will be equivalent to a cost reduction of £640 million for British industry.
Mr. Beaumont-Dark
Will my right hon. Friend express regret that certain Members of the Opposition have [column 920]chosen to make sweeping allegations about police corruption where many of us think it does not exist? Does she agree that it is time that people who make such allegations either prove them or shut up, because the police force does a good job and needs help, not blame, all the time?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. If allegations, supported by evidence, are to be made, they should be sent to Sir Michael Haversthe Attorney-General.
Q3. Mr. Greville Janner
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Janner
Is the Prime Minister aware that today 25,407 people are registered as unemployed in Leicester, many of them youngsters who left school a year ago and who have never had a job? What will she do to help this great city, which has achieved unparalleled commercial success in the past, to come out of the worst recession that it has ever had?
The Prime Minister
First, we shall keep inflation coming down. That is extremely important. It is being reduced, but it is still twice the rate of inflation in Germany. It is extremely important to keep wage claims well within the increases in productivity. We are keeping interest rates on a downward trend. We are also making certain that the deficit does not rise, because if it did there would be a danger that interest rates would rise. We are also reducing the national insurance surcharge as from next week. Beyond that, it is for management and work people to produce goods which their fellow citizens will buy in preference to overseas goods.
Mr. Thornton
Has my right hon. Friend had an opportunity to read in The Times today the news of the opening of the new container terminal in the north dock at Garston in my constituency? Does she agree that this is a marvellous boost for Merseyside and that it shows what can be-done with effective management and a co-operative work force? Will she join me in wishing them well?
The Prime Minister
I agree that it is a wonderful boost for Merseyside, and I wish both management and work force prosperity in the future.
Mr. Barry Jones
Has the Prime Minister noted the intense disappointment in areas of high unemployment at the announcement about Nissan? What will she attempt to do about the project on her visit to Japan? Is it not an indictment of her Administration that, with so much unemployment, so many people in Britain are seeking the Nissan development?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman will have seen the announcement by Nissan that it has not yet made a final decision but has agreed to defer it. It is, of course, a matter for the company to decide. The hon. Gentleman will also have seen the changes that we have announced on hire purchase, which I hope will help our car industry. I hope, also, that any increases in purchases will be of home-produced cars, not of cars from overseas.
Mr. Tapsell
Has my right hon. Friend noted the growing anxieties that are being expressed about the stability of the international commercial banking system? Before the annual general meeting of the International [column 921]Monetary Fund starts in Toronto on 6 September, will the Government put forward proposals to the world's central banks to encourage even greater co-operation and stricter supervision of their commercial banks?
The Prime Minister
I am very much aware of that and of the danger that any default would produce, not only for one group of banks in one country, but, by a domino effect, for a number of banks. We are very much aware of what is happening, and the matter is frequently discussed at international meetings. We shall, of course, keep the matter very much in mind and make any proposals that we think fit at the time. It is vital not to lend too much, and undoubtedly a number of banks have been overlending, although not in this country.
Q4. Mr. Dormand
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 27 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Dormand
I support my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition in urging the Prime Minister to give further consideration to meeting the additional costs involved in having the “Atlantic Conveyor” replacement built in Britain. Does the right hon. Lady realise that there is overwhelming support in Britain for such a decision? In view of the fine phrases that the right hon. Lady used only a few weeks ago about our ships during the Falklands [column 922]crisis, what possible justification can there be for the Government's narrow-minded and niggardly attitude, particularly when the Tyneside workers met every demand that was made of them during the crisis?
The Prime Minister
The Government have already offered a subsidy of 30 per cent. on the British Shipbuilders' price. That is a considerable subsidy. We are now considering what further can be done. It seems to me to be reasonable, both for the future of the shipbuilding industry, as well as to obtain that order, to ask for cooperation from all three parties involved. The Government are co-operating and will continue to co-operate, because we want that ship to be built in Britain. We look for some co-operation from Cunard, and we are entitled to look for some more co-operation from British Shipbuilders and all who supply it, particularly to reduce costs.
Commander Michael Trestrail
Mr. Thomas Torney (Bradford, South)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek your guidance on an incident about which newspapers say that the House has been misled. I refer to the Home Secretary giving the impression that Commander Trestrail had been the subject of proper security clearance, whereas we now know that he had not.
Mr. Speaker
That is clearly not a point of order. It must be pursued in some other way.